David Smollar
Deposition Transcript Index
Deposition Transcript

1



1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE

3

4 RON LACKEY,

5 Plaintiff,

6 vs. No. 06CC00149

7 CRYSTAL KOCHENDORFER, et al.,

8 Defendants.

9

10

11

12 _____________________________________________________

13

14 DEPOSITION OF DAVID J. SMOLLAR

15 Costa Mesa, California

16 Friday, September 15, 2006

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18

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20

21 Reported by:
LORRAINE CHAMPAGNE
22 CSR No. 6452

23 JOB No. 53291

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2


Parties Δ


1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE

3

4 RON LACKEY,

5 Plaintiff,

6 vs. No. 06CC00149

7 CRYSTAL KOCHENDORFER, DUANE E.
STIFF, JOHN CASABIANCA, SHEILA
8 J. BENECKE, SHELIA J. HENNESS,
MARLENE M. DRAPER, MIKE DARNOLD,
9 individually in their official
capacity as Members of the Board
10 of Trustees of the Capistrano
Unified School District; BOARD OF
11 TRUSTEES OF THE CAPISTRANO UNIFIED
SCHOOL DISTRICT; CAPISTRANO UNIFIED
12 SCHOOL DISTRICT; JAMES FLEMING in
his official capacity as
13 Superintendent of the Capistrano
Unified School District; and DOES 1
14 THROUGH 5 INCLUSIVE,

15 Defendants.
_________________________________________________________
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3



1 Deposition of DAVID J. SMOLLAR, taken on

2 behalf of Defendants Crystal Kochendorfer, Duane

3 E. Stiff, John Casabianca, Sheila J. Benecke,

4 Shelia J. Henness, Marlene M. Draper, Mike

5 Darnold, individually in their official capacity

6 as Members of the Board of Trustees of the

7 Capistrano Unified School District; Board OF

8 Trustees of the Capistrano Unified School

9 District; Capistrano Unified School District;

10 James Fleming in his official capacity as

11 Superintendent of the Capistrano Unified School

12 District, at 611 Anton Boulevard, Thirteenth

13 Floor, Costa Mesa, California, beginning at

14 9:31 a.m. and ending at 3:08 p.m., on Friday,

15 September 15, 2006, before LORRAINE CHAMPAGNE,

16 Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 6452.

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4


Appearances Δ


1 APPEARANCES:

2

3 For Plaintiff:

4 WEWER & LACY, LLP
BY: JAMES V. LACY
5 Attorney at Law
30011 Ivy Glenn Drive, Suite 223
6 Laguna Niguel, California 92677
(877) 449-2700
7
For Defendants Crystal Kochendorfer, Duane E. Stiff, John
8 Casabianca, Sheila J. Benecke, Shelia J. Henness, Marlene
M. Draper, Mike Darnold, individually in their official
9 capacity as Members of the Board of Trustees of the
Capistrano Unified School District; Board of Trustees of
10 the Capistrano Unified School District; Capistrano
Unified School District; James Fleming in his official
11 capacity as Superintendent of the Capistrano Unified
School District:
12
RUTAN & TUCKER, LLP
13 BY: DAVID C. LARSEN
Attorney at Law
14 611 Anton Boulevard, Fourteenth Floor
Costa Mesa, California 92626-1931
15 (714) 641-5100

16 Also Present:

17 RON LACKEY
TONI SIMPSON
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5


Index Δ


1 INDEX

2 WITNESS EXAMINATION

3 DAVID J. SMOLLAR

4

5 BY MR. LARSEN 8, 194

6 BY MR. LACY 95

7

8
EXHIBITS
9
DEFENDANTS' PAGE
10
1 Deposition Subpoena and attachments; 7 pages 11
11
2 7/22/06 Register article; 1 page 69
12
3 7/27/06 Register article; 1 page 69
13
4 Complaint and answer; 29 pages 76
14
5 Westlaw Attached Printing Summary Report for 76
15 Lacy, Janice; 15 pages

16 6 Findlaw printout for Duval v. Board of Trustees; 77
11 pages
17
7 4/25/05 memo to Trustees; 2 pages 81
18
8 Notice Of Intention To Circulate Recall 81
19 Petition; 1 page

20 9 A Special Statement By Superintendent James A. 82
Fleming Relating Facts About The District;
21 3 pages

22 10 4/26/05 letter from James V. Lacy to Dr. James 83
A. Fleming; 4 pages
23
11 11/18/05 News Release; 3 pages 84
24
12 James A. Fleming Biography; 1 page 86
25




6



1 INDEX (Continued):

2 EXHIBITS

3 DEFENDANTS' PAGE

4 13 12/15/05 e-mail from DJS to sbenecke; 2 pages 86

5 14 12/23/05 e-mail from Shelia Henness to DJS; 88
1 page
6
15 12/22/05 News Release; 2 pages 88
7
16 2/27/06 Press Release; 2 pages 89
8
17 3/1/06 note to Dr. Fleming; 1 page 90
9
18 5/23/06 resignation; 1 page 91
10
19 5/23/06 letter from James A. Fleming to 91
11 Mr. Smollar; 1 page

12 20 Cartoon; 1 page 91

13
PLAINTIFF'S
14
A Board Actions; 18 pages 140
15
B Board Minutes; 3 pages 146
16
C Disclosure Of Confidential Information; 1 page 149
17
D Article by David Smollar; 3 pages 157
18
E 7/30/05 Special Meeting document; 1 page 160
19
F 7/30/05 memo from Heather Wheeler to Dr. James 161
20 A. Fleming; 8 pages

21 G 4/25/05 Superintendent's Prepared Statement 170
Regarding Ron Lackey's Request At Board Regarding
22 Alleged FBI Investigation Of District; 4 pages

23 H From the Desk of James A. Fleming...; 1 page 173

24 I 9/11/06 memo from Chuck McCully to Marlene M. 175
Draper, et al.; 5 pages
25




7



1 INDEX (Continued):

2 EXHIBITS

3 PLAINTIFF'S PAGE

4 J 10/31/05 fax from Ron Lackey to David Smollar; 178
1 page
5
K 12/2/05 fax from Ron Lackey to David Smollar; 179
6 1 page

7 L 6/7/05 letter from David Smollar to Ron Lackey; 181
1 page
8
M Actions By The Board; 3 pages 183
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N Closed Session Purposes And Agendas; 5 pages 184
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1 Costa Mesa, California, Friday, September 15, 2006

2 9:31 a.m. - 3:08 p.m.

3

4 DAVID J. SMOLLAR,

5 having been administered the oath, was examined and

6 testified as follows:

7

8 EXAMINATION

9 BY MR. LARSEN:

10 Q All right. Mr. Smollar, would you state and

11 spell your name for the record.

12 A Okay, David, D-a-v-i-d; middle initial, J.; last

13 name, Smollar, S-, as in Sam, -m-, as in Michael,

14 -o-l-l-a, as in apple, -r.

15 Q And what's your current address?

16 A 3722 Arnold Avenue, number 4, San Diego,

17 California, 92104.

18 MR. LACY: I'm sorry for interrupting, but while

19 we're on the record, could we discuss what you intend to

20 do today in terms of the deposition? Maybe some of the

21 ground rules that you intend to be working on.

22 MR. LARSEN: Well, I was going to go over those

23 with Mr. Smollar, but the ground rules, of course, are

24 the ground rules in the Code of Civil Procedure, so we'll

25 be following those.




9



1 MR. LACY: No, I understand that, but -- well,

2 the first thing I want to say is that it appears that

3 you've elected to not record this deposition through

4 instant visual display of testimony or videotape; that's

5 correct, isn't it?

6 MR. LARSEN: That's correct.

7 MR. LACY: Okay. Secondly, I'd like to have an

8 idea of how long you expect to be conducting this

9 deposition, because I have staff here, and I have the

10 plaintiff here, and I'd also like to know when I might be

11 able to expect to be able to ask my questions. So I'm

12 asking you a timing question, and that's what I meant by

13 "ground rules."

14 MR. LARSEN: Okay. You know, it's difficult to

15 estimate. I estimate that my questions will last

16 somewhere between two to three hours. I mean, that's

17 just an approximation, it could be more, could be less.

18 MR. LACY: I'd like to express the hope or

19 possibility that we might be able to complete your

20 questions before lunch, because if you're saying three

21 hours, that would take us into about 12:30, maybe take a

22 short break for lunch, and then have us come back and

23 have me ask my questions. Is that something that might

24 be a goal that we could work towards?

25 MR. LARSEN: It certainly could be a goal. You




10



1 know, I'm not going to be constrained by any --

2 MR. LACY: I understand.

3 MR. LARSEN: If the examination takes longer,

4 it'll take longer. I don't have any problem breaking for

5 lunch. And if there are -- you know, we'll just have to

6 kind of see where the questions lead. If we're finished

7 before, if I'm through for some reason after an hour,

8 hour and a half, I would expect you to just go ahead and

9 get started --

10 MR. LACY: Of course.

11 MR. LARSEN: -- if that's all right.

12 MR. LACY: To just get off of this, could we

13 just say we'll break around noon for lunch?

14 MR. LARSEN: Absolutely. Let's ask the witness.

15 Q Do you have any time constraints?

16 A No, but just as a matter of suggestion, if you

17 were -- if it's noon and you're near to finishing, would

18 it not make more sense to go a little past noon --

19 MR. LACY: Of course.

20 THE WITNESS: All right.

21 MR. LACY: For right now --

22 THE WITNESS: I don't have any time constraints.

23 MR. LACY: -- break about noon to about 1:15?

24 MR. LARSEN: Fine.

25 MR. LACY: Thank you very much.




11



1 BY MR. LARSEN:

2 Q All right. Mr. Smollar, have you ever had your

3 deposition taken before?

4 A No.

5 Q Have you ever testified in any kind of legal

6 proceeding?

7 A Actually in a courtroom?

8 Q Courtroom --

9 A I'm trying to cover all bases.

10 Q -- office, administrative hearing, or any other

11 situations where you were placed under oath.

12 A Not that I can recall, no.

13 Q Okay. Well, just to kind of review what we're

14 doing here today, you are being deposed in a legal

15 proceeding brought by Mr. Lackey against the trustees and

16 Dr. Fleming of Capistrano School District. And as I

17 understand it, you're here pursuant to a subpoena that

18 you received --

19 A Received from you, yeah. Or from your office.

20 MR. LARSEN: I'll just mark as Exhibit 1 to the

21 deposition a copy of the subpoena. We'll call this

22 Defense Exhibit 1.

23 (Defendants' Exhibit 1 was marked.)

24 BY MR. LARSEN:

25 Q Is that a copy of the subpoena you received?




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1 A It looks to be the same copy. Okay, and you're

2 not videotaping, even though it is marked?

3 Q Correct.

4 A Audiotape?

5 Q No. We'll go into that in a minute.

6 A Okay, then don't explain it now.

7 Q That is the deposition (sic) you received?

8 A Correct.

9 Q Okay. And you've been placed under oath --

10 A Correct.

11 Q -- and that's the same oath that you would take

12 if you were testifying in a court or legal proceeding

13 testifying; do you understand that?

14 A Understand that.

15 Q And that oath requires you to be truthful and

16 honest in all of your answers.

17 A I understand that.

18 Q Now, as you properly noted, the notice of the

19 deposition indicated that it could also be videotaped.

20 We won't be videotaping today, but we do have a court

21 reporter. That reporter, and it's the actual court

22 reporter, is the official record of what you testify to,

23 even with the videotape. The court reporter on your

24 right and my left is certified and independent, and she's

25 taking down each and every word that is said today in




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1 this proceeding, unless we say we're off the record. If

2 we're off the record, then she won't type. Unless

3 somebody formally goes off the record and everyone

4 agrees, then everything will be on the record; do you

5 understand that?

6 A I understand that.

7 Q And she will type everything up into a booklet

8 format. You'll be given an opportunity to review that

9 and make any corrections, if you believe corrections are

10 necessary, and to sign it. So that is part of the

11 process. However, if you make corrections that change

12 your testimony, that could reflect adversely upon you as

13 a witness. So it's important that we have complete,

14 accurate testimony today. Will you give us complete and

15 accurate testimony today?

16 A I think I've already sworn to that.

17 Q Okay. So you will?

18 A I've sworn to that.

19 Q Okay. Are you under any medication or physical

20 limitations which would in any way impair your ability to

21 recall or to testify?

22 A No.

23 Q Now, one more just general instruction, or two

24 more. If you don't understand a question for any reason,

25 ask for clarification. If you don't ask for a




14



1 clarification, myself or anyone else reading the

2 transcript will assume you understood the question; is

3 that fair?

4 A Okay.

5 Q Also, it's important that you answer audibly.

6 Sometimes witnesses have a tendency to nod their head,

7 that she doesn't record, and they sometimes use "uh-huh"

8 and "huh-uh," that's just what we all do in speech at

9 times. If you do that, that doesn't make a clear record,

10 so we'll remind you use "yes" or "no."

11 A Okay.

12 Q And if we have to make that reminder, then don't

13 take it as a personal affront, it's just making a clear

14 record.

15 A Okay. Understood.

16 Q We have coffee and juice and water available.

17 If you need a break, please feel free. Also, if you feel

18 a need to visit the restroom, you can ask for a break,

19 and we'll give you a break and opportunity to do that.

20 A All right.

21 Q We've already indicated that we'll be breaking

22 at some point for lunch as we approach the 12:00 hour,

23 and we'll determine exactly what we will do in that

24 respect.

25 A Okay.




15

Smollar's background Δ


1 Q Do you currently have any business address other

2 than your home address?

3 A No.

4 Q Are you currently employed?

5 A No.

6 Q Going back, what is your most recent past

7 employment?

8 A With Capistrano Unified.

9 Q And how long were you employed with Capistrano

10 Unified School District?

11 A Approximately four and a half years.

12 Q And what was your position?

13 A My title was -- official title was director of

14 communications, communications director.

15 Q Did you have any other titles while at

16 Capistrano Unified?

17 A No.

18 Q Who did you report to?

19 A Jim Fleming.

20 Q Did you ever report to anyone else other than

21 Jim Fleming?

22 A No.

23 Q Prior to going to work for Capistrano Unified

24 School District, what was your employment prior to that?

25 A I had worked at San Diego Unified School




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1 District as the public information officer.

2 Q And how long did you work at San Diego Unified

3 School District?

4 A Let's see. Can I write on this or --

5 Q Well, if you need a pad --

6 A Yeah, just a pad. Just a couple pieces. Want

7 to be accurate. Okay.

8 So approximately two and a half years.

9 Q And what was your reason for leaving San Diego

10 Unified School District?

11 A The position in Capistrano Unified was a

12 higher-paying position.

13 Q Who did you report to at San Diego Unified?

14 A Several people. The first -- when I first

15 employed there, Dick -- Dick Daniels. Then I reported to

16 Norma Trost. Then I reported to Tom Mitchell. And then

17 I reported to John Spellig.

18 Q And prior to working for San Diego Unified

19 School District, what was your employment?

20 A I was employed at the -- as the manager of

21 communications at California State University,

22 San Marcos.

23 Q And how long were you in that position?

24 A Approximately 13 months.

25 Q And what was your reason for leaving that




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1 position?

2 A The position at San Diego Unified was a

3 higher-paying position.

4 Q And prior to San Marcos, what position did you

5 have?

6 A I was the director of communications -- no, I'm

7 sorry, I was director of media relations for the

8 California State University at Long Beach.

9 Q And how long were you there?

10 A There approximately 15 months.

11 Q And going back to San Marcos, who was your

12 direct supervisor?

13 A George Cagala, C-a-g-a-l-a.

14 Q And what was your reason for leaving as director

15 of media relations for California State Long Beach?

16 A I wanted a position closer to San Diego.

17 Q Who was your immediate supervisor at Cal State

18 Long Beach?

19 A Tony Barone.

20 Q Prior to working at Cal State Long Beach, where

21 did you work?

22 A Los Angeles Times.

23 Q And how long were you with the Los Angeles

24 Times?

25 A 15 -- 14 years or 15 years. Let me check,




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1 little me do a little quick math. Approximately 15

2 years.

3 Q And what was your reason for leaving the

4 Los Angeles Times?

5 A The Los Angeles Times was in a financial pinch

6 and closed its San Diego bureau.

7 Q Have you ever worked for The Orange County

8 Register?

9 A Temporarily, yes.

10 Q When did you work for The Orange County

11 Register?

12 A From -- it would have been October of '97 to --

13 no, wait a minute. I'm sorry, October of '95 to June of

14 '96.

15 Q Who was your immediate supervisor there?

16 A John -- I'm blanking on his last name.

17 Doussard, D-o-u-s-s-a-r-d.

18 Q And was your employment with The Orange County

19 Register concurrent with your L.A. Times employment or

20 after?

21 A After.

22 Q And it was prior to your work for Cal State Long

23 Beach?

24 A Correct.

Smollar's duties at CUSD Δ


25 Q All right. As director of communications at




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1 Capistrano Unified School District, what were your duties

2 and responsibilities?

3 A Let's see. I essentially prepared press

4 releases or news releases. I would draft the weekly

5 update for the superintendent. I would draft his monthly

6 column, monthly column for the superintendent. I would

7 generally edit all correspondence that went out from the

8 district to more than 15 people, a rule of thumb. I was

9 the point of contact in most cases for media, either

10 getting them the information or referring them to the

11 appropriate person in the district. I had oversight of

12 the two receptionists in the lobby. And the last year of

13 my employment there I had oversight of the graphic arts

14 department. And I would do other writing as directed by

15 the superintendent.

16 Q How often did you meet with the superintendent?

17 A Many times a day on a daily basis. But when you

18 say -- I should clarify that. When you say meetings, I

19 mean, he ran his administration on a somewhat informal

20 basis, where administrators essentially just went in and

21 out of his office whenever they needed to see him, they

22 weren't -- they weren't appointments. The only time I

23 think I ever saw him on an appointment basis would be if

24 he had scheduled a meeting with several people and wanted

25 me to be part of it or as -- sometimes when you were down




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1 there, there was a meeting with you and the staffers and

2 he wanted me there, there would be a time certain. But

3 otherwise, it was essentially whenever he needed to see

4 me or I needed to get approval from him on something that

5 had been written or edited.

6 Q Did you ever attend school board meetings?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And how often did you attend school board

9 meetings?

10 A I attended every school board meeting during my

11 tenure at Capistrano Unified.

12 Q Did you attend closed sessions?

13 A No. And that needs -- I can explain that.

14 MR. LACY: Could I just ask for a clarification

15 for the record? You might want to explain what a closed

16 session is.

17 MR. LARSEN: Or, you know --

18 MR. LACY: I mean, does he understand what you

19 mean by "closed session"?

20 MR. LARSEN: You know, I think he does.

21 Q You understand what I mean by "closed session"?

22 A Yeah, it's understood, it's a session that the

23 public -- there are topics on the agenda that are said

24 not to be in the purview of the public.

25 I did attend -- when I first got to Capo in --




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1 MR. LACY: Are you referring to closed -- I'm

2 sorry to --

3 THE WITNESS: Closed sessions.

4 MR. LACY: -- interrupt, but to address myself

5 to counsel, when you say "closed session," if I may, I

6 think it might help the record if you explain what you're

7 referring to. Are you talking to just a closed meeting,

8 or are you talking about some sort of legal connotation,

9 such as a closed session under the Brown Act? And you

10 might want to lay some foundation there for purposes of

11 the record.

12 MR. LARSEN: Counsel, you'll have your

13 opportunity to ask questions. I'm going to conduct my

14 examination the way I feel comfortable and I'll be

15 comfortable with my record. If you feel like there's

16 clarification, you'll be given that opportunity to make

17 any clarification at the conclusion of my examination.

18 MR. LACY: Okay. Well, I think it would help

19 everyone if we understood what you meant by "closed

20 session."

21 MR. LARSEN: All right.

22 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question.

23 MR. LARSEN: Yes.

24 Q Did you attend closed sessions that were part of

25 a regular school board meeting or special -- or of a




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1 school board meeting?

2 A Well, first, yes. And I was just told by staff

3 that staff attends the closed sessions, which start at

4 6:00 p.m. on a Monday before the 7:00 p.m. regular

5 meeting, and sometimes they reconvene -- the board

6 reconvenes the closed session following the open session,

7 whenever it ends, at 9:00 or 10:00 or whatever. And it

8 was -- and I did, because the entire cabinet, which was

9 11, 12, 13 people, depending on the particular time,

10 there was a lot of staff in there.

Brown Act violations Δ


11 I got to be a bit uncomfortable attending

12 because, from my knowledge of the Brown Act and closed

13 and open meetings, from both my experience as a

14 journalist and my work with the Cal State systems, and

15 particularly with San Diego Unified, there was a lot of

16 discussion that went on in the closed meetings that

17 struck me as problematical. And I told Dr. Fleming --

18 this would have been probably in late spring of '02 --

19 that I was uncomfortable attending because there were

20 things being talked about that, if I were asked by a

21 member of the public or the media, I would have to lie if

22 I was to say I had no knowledge of it, and I felt, for my

23 protection, it would be best that I wouldn't be in closed

24 meetings, unless I was there on a particular issue

25 regarding the communications department. And he looked




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1 at me quite puzzled and said, Well, that's okay, but I'm

2 shocked, in so many words, not quoting him precisely, but

3 you're the first communications person I ever had who

4 didn't want to be there at the seat of the power. And I

5 said, you know, essentially, "Well, so be it, but I'd be

6 more comfortable not being in those meetings."

7 Q So you did not attend closed session after

8 spring of 2002?

9 A Correct. Unless I was specifically instructed

10 to because there was an issue that I would need to

11 address as part of a closed session agenda item.

12 Q After spring of '02, approximately how many

13 closed sessions did you attend?

14 A Less than -- less than five, I'm sure.

15 Q Did you attend a closed session on July 30th,

16 2005, to discuss the superintendent's evaluation?

17 A I attended no closed session on July 30th, 2005.

18 Q Did you ever attend a closed session where the

19 superintendent's evaluation was discussed?

20 A No.

Fleming's responsibilities Δ


21 Q What do you understand to be the

22 superintendent's job duties and responsibilities?

23 A Basically, to carry out the policies of the

24 school district as directed by the board of trustees. I

25 mean, in the broadest sense.




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1 Q He is the chief executive officer of the

2 district, in your understanding?

3 MR. LACY: That's a leading question, but I

4 won't object.

5 THE WITNESS: I just -- I'm not sure what you

6 mean by that.

7 BY MR. LARSEN:

8 Q Well, who is the chief executive officer of the

9 school district?

10 A Well, explain to me what -- precisely when you

11 say "chief executive officer." Because I think of the

12 term "chief executive officer" in private sector terms,

13 and I'm not sure that it equates exactly to a public

14 agency.

15 Q Well, is there anybody at the school district

16 that's responsible for the overall operations of the

17 district?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And who's that?

20 A The superintendent.

21 Q And is there any part of the school's operations

22 that he's not responsible for, to your knowledge?

23 A To my knowledge, no.

24 Q And would you expect him to -- he answers to the

25 board of trustees; is that your understanding?




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1 A Yes.

2 Q And would you expect him to be evaluated on all

3 aspects of the district's operation?

4 A I think that's reasonable.

5 Q Is there any aspect of the district's operation

6 that you would not expect him to be evaluated on?

7 A He has the ultimate responsibility for the

8 district.

9 Q He would even have ultimate responsibility for

10 communications, would he not?

11 A Yes.

Smollar's reason for quitting Δ


12 Q Why did you terminate your employment with the

13 district?

14 A It's best expressed in one of the documents that

15 I gave you in my letter of resignation. And if I could

16 see it, I'd like to pair- -- I'd like to actually read

17 it.

18 Q Well, we're going to get into the documents in a

19 minute, but as you sit here today as a witness, what was

20 your reason for --

21 A My reason was I no longer felt that I could

22 portray a truthful picture of the district because, in

23 essence, I was not receiving truthful information from

24 the superintendent.

25 Q Did you ever tell anyone that you were resigning




26



1 from the district because the district had contracted

2 with Mike Eggers?

3 A No.

4 Q Did you ever mention being upset about the

5 district contracting with Mike Eggers to anybody?

6 A Not about the contract with Mike Eggers, no.

7 Q Were you upset that he was going to possibly be

8 reviewing your work?

9 A No.

10 Q You never mentioned that to anyone?

Fleming lies about Eggers contract Δ


11 A Well, if you want the context -- you asked me if

12 I was upset on the contract with Mike Eggers, and the

13 answer is no, but I was upset because Dr. Fleming lied to

14 me about there being a contract and then lied to me about

15 the authorship of a particular document that, unbeknown

16 to him, I had been given by a secretary that was offered

17 by Mike Eggers. And subsequently both -- he lied about

18 the particulars of an invoice that Mike Eggers had

19 submitted to the district.

20 Q So you had conversations with Dr. Fleming about

21 the district's relationship with Mike Eggers; is that

22 correct?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And what did you say in those -- how many

25 conversations did you have with him about the contract




27



1 with Mike Eggers?

2 A Well, the conversations with Mike Eggers go back

3 to fall of 2005, when I had come back from a vacation and

4 was working on the superintendent's weekly update and had

5 given it to Dr. Fleming and was concerned why I hadn't

6 gotten it back to post it on the Web site. And I ran

7 into Susan McGill, who was Dr. Fleming's administrative

8 assistant/superintendent of administration at that point,

9 or whatever her title was, and she, in essence, told me

10 that Mike Eggers was reviewing all district -- all the

11 superintendent's documents.

Fleming considers resigning Δ


12 And I went in and asked Dr. Fleming quite

13 pointedly, "What's going on here?" And he, you know,

14 said, "I don't like this any more than you do, but it's

15 being forced on me, because we're in a recall, and the

16 board president insists, and that's just the way it's

17 going to have to be for a while. And I'm thinking of

18 quitting," this is Dr. Fleming talking to me. And, in

19 fact, that's when Dr. Fleming had me start work on a

20 resignation, slash, retirement news release that he said

21 he might issue at the end of November following -- or

22 between the time the recall petitions were turned in and

23 before it was announced by the registrar whether the

24 recall had succeeded or not.

Eggers replaces Smollar Δ


25 Subsequently the column, which, of course, Mike




28



1 Eggers was writing in toto, I had nothing to do, then,

2 with the column or the weekly update, so he wasn't

3 editing me, it was being done by Susan McGill and/or

4 Dr. Fleming, to the extent he was getting Susan McGill's

5 input, his column was sent out by the secretary to the

6 eight Orange County weekly newspapers and the Capistrano

7 Dispatch, which is an every-other-week newspaper, which

8 sometimes used his column, sometimes didn't.

Fleming lies about Eggers Δ


9 And Jonathan Volzke called me back, who's the

10 editor of the Capistrano Dispatch, and said, "How come

11 Mike Eggers is writing the superintendent's column?" And

12 I said, "Well, I'm not sure he is." He says, "Well, yes,

13 he is. I right-clicked on the document that his

14 secretary, superintendent's secretary, sent over, and it

15 says 'Author, Mike Eggers.'" So I said, "Well, Jonathan,

16 you'll have to talk to Dr. Fleming about that, I'm not in

17 a position to answer that question."

18 He talked to Dr. Fleming. Dr. Fleming came to

19 my office after that was -- this conversation with Volzke

20 and said, "Well, I couldn't tell Jonathan, you know, the

21 truth, that, you know, I'm under orders to do it, I just

22 told him Mike Eggers is an old friend of mine, and, you

23 know, he helps me out from time to time."

Eggers crosses Fleming Δ


24 Then subsequently Dr. Fleming asked me if I

25 knew -- this is maybe a couple days later -- if I knew




29



1 that Mike Eggers was conducting some sort of strategic

2 analysis for the district. I said, "I don't talk to Mike

3 Eggers, I don't think I've met him but once, but I have

4 no knowledge of that." And Dr. Fleming told me, well,

5 that Mike Eggers had gone to the associate

6 superintendent, Dan Crawford, associate or deputy

7 superintendent, Marge LaRoe -- I think those were their

8 titles at that point -- and also associate

9 superintendent, Dave Doomey, and told them that he had

10 been tasked by the board president to do a strategic

11 study/analysis of the district separate from the

12 superintendent.

Doomey or Crawford squeals Δ


12 Apparently, Dave Doomey and or Dan

13 Crawford or both of them informed Dr. Fleming about that,

Fleming confronts Draper Δ


14 and Dr. Fleming told me that he was going to have -- and

15 these are his exact words -- a, quote, Come to Jesus

16 meeting with board president, Marlene Draper, about Mike

17 Eggers and what he was doing.

Smollar reinstated Δ


17 Within the next week I was

18 back writing the weekly update and the superintendent's

19 monthly column.

Egger's PAC retained Δ


20 Now, to bring forward to your original question,

21 I heard nothing more about Mike Eggers. The recall, as

22 we all know, failed, we went into the year. And then Sam

23 Miller of the Register queried me about a listing on the

24 warrants listings, which are these voluminous, many-page,

25 sometimes 70 or more pages, of all the purchase orders,




30



1 warrants, et cetera, that go out of the -- that are paid

2 for the district, they hire people, payments to Rutan &

3 Tucker are listed monthly on those purchase warrants.

4 Apparently, there was a listing for something called

5 Creative Connection, and Sam Miller said that that was

6 Mike Eggers' public relations -- or public -- political

7 action firm, I'm not sure what -- how exactly would

8 clarify -- how he would describe it. I said "I" -- "I

9 don't know, but I'll find out."

Fleming warned about Eggers Δ


10 So I went in and asked Dr. Fleming, and I said,

11 you know, "This could be a problem. Why are we hiring

12 him?"

Fleming lies about Eggers Δ


13 "Well, Marlene wants him to do some community

14 outreach," this and that. I said, "Well, you know, you

15 asked me for advice as communications director. This is

16 problematic. Sam Miller knows about it. Volzke will

17 probably know about it. I mean, it doesn't look good.

18 We've hired the PAC" -- "the man who ran the trustees'

19 political action committee, he's now on our payroll

20 doing, quote, community relations or whatever type of

21 work." He said, "I know, I know, but it won't have

22 anything to do with your area, nothing to do with your

23 area," meaning communications, the weekly update or the

24 column. I said, "Well, you know, Sam Miller has

25 requested any documentation." He says, "Well, give it to




31



1 him, you know, that's okay, fine."

2 Around that time -- I'm not quite sure the time

3 process -- Dr. Fleming then went to Italy for a vacation,

4 and the day he left -- it was a Friday, whatever that

5 Friday was, it was around the time of the Easter break --

6 he gave me his column for the May -- the May column, in

7 essence, and he wanted -- it was on -- he had dictated --

8 he never wrote -- he never wrote anything, because he

9 didn't have a -- he doesn't use a computer, and he very

10 rarely writes, but he dictated about 1,200 words to Jane

11 Boos, his secretary -- or one of the secretaries,

12 shorthand, and they transcribed it. He gave it to me,

13 says, "I'm leaving. I want you to look at this. You

14 need to cut it down," because the newspapers needed no

15 more -- would take, excuse me, no more than 650 words.

16 Says, you know, "You gotta edit it." He would always

17 say, he used the phrase a lot, "This is a" -- you know,

18 "an unfinished clay, mold it into a nice statue," he

19 liked to use that term. I said, "Okay," you know, "I'll

20 work on it while you're on" -- "over in Italy." And I

21 said, "But think about, you know, when you want to use

22 it. Do you want to use it in May, or do you want to wait

23 till June? Because we're moving in May, and if something

24 doesn't go right with the move, the column would have

25 been out" -- usually the column ran in the early part of




32



1 May -- "and it'll look funny. So just think about

2 whether we want to wait and use the column in June, when

3 we're moved in. And, you know, things can go wrong while

4 you're moving an entire office." He said, "Fine."

5 So I worked on it, cut it down to half. And but

6 while he was gone, about late the following week, some

7 stuff was dropped in my basket, I guess when I was at

8 lunch, and when I got back, I looked at it, and it was

9 the column he had sent to Mike Eggers and a cover note to

10 Eggers -- and this is all done through e-mail, through

11 Kate McIntyre, because she sent all of his e-mail -- and

12 Eggers' edited column came back. And I thought, "Gee,

13 this is interesting." And, basically, he told Eggers,

14 you know, "Some of my staff doesn't think," you know,

15 this, that. So I looked at it, and I didn't honestly

16 think Eggers' thing was very good, and I figured, what

17 the hell, but I didn't know why I got it.

18 So Dr. Fleming got back the following week, and

19 it was very busy, because he got back literally on a

20 board night day. And I brought in my edited column to

21 him and said, "Here's the column." He said, "Oh, great,

22 I'll read it," blah, blah, blah. And he says, "This is

23 great, this is great, but I want to show you, I actually

24 worked on it while I was over in Italy." And I sort of

25 did a -- was a little surprised, because, you know, while




33



1 he was on vacation -- he normally wouldn't do it anyways.

2 He said, "I want you to look at my edited version." So I

3 said, "Fine," and he looks for it, but, as usual, he can

4 never find anything in his office. So I said, "I'm

5 across the hall. When you find it, come over, and I'll

6 read it."

7 About five minutes later he comes over and said,

8 "I edited it myself, what do you think?" So I looked at

9 it, and I realized right away it was Mike Eggers' edit.

10 So I figure, you know, he's having a little fun with me

11 or whatever. So I figure, well, I'll -- let's play along

12 with the fun. So I read it, and I said, "Well, I have to

13 be honest with you, Dr. Fleming, I think your

14 original" -- "the original version you wrote is better

15 than the one you just edited." He goes, "Really? Oh,

16 okay, we're going to use yours anyway. So -- and he

17 walked out.

18 So I thought, well, he's going to say, "Hey,

19 this was a test thing to Eggers," or whatever. Remember,

20 he had told me that Eggers would have nothing to do with

21 the district communications, he was on this contract to

22 do community outreach, like, get plaques of all the

23 cities in the Capo area to put on the wall in the new

24 district office, and he was going to line up -- plan a

25 party, sort of reception in the building once we got in.




34


Fleming betrays Smollar Δ


1 But Dr. Fleming never fessed up. And at that point I

2 decided, you know, if I don't have the trust of the

3 superintendent, then, you know, that's a pretty lousy

4 situation to be working in. What other games is he

5 playing with me? What else has he lied to me about? And

6 that's where it crystallized.

7 So that's a long answer to your question.

8 Q And you then resigned?

9 A Couple weeks later I submitted a letter of

10 resignation.

OCR public records request Δ


11 Q Anything else happen between during that two

12 weeks which caused you to submit your resignation?

13 A Well, the only other thing was that Sam Miller,

14 you know, had had a public information request in for the

15 documentation of Eggers' contract, Creative Connection,

16 and I -- I told Dr. Fleming, said, "Well, you know, you

17 got it as public record, public record, and I had given

18 it to Miller."

Public records abuse Δ


18 But I guess Dr. Fleming didn't realize

19 that I was going to give it to Miller, he thought that I

20 would do what Dr. Fleming liked us to do a lot on public

21 records requests, is wait ten days, send the notice back

22 saying, "Well, we got your request, and we're looking

23 into it," and then sort of delay, delay, delay.

Phony bill scam foiled Δ


24 And I found out from other people in the

25 building he was furious that it had gone out, because,




35



1 apparently, he and Marlene Draper were going to have Mike

2 Eggers submit a new -- what do you call -- a new form for

3 work done, his -- I'm blanking on the word he used, when

4 you submit your bill that lists the work you've done.

5 There's a word for it. But, anyways, that he was going

6 to submit a different one, because the first one he

7 submitted could be open to, I guess, ridicule because he

8 charged for two and a half hours for lunch with Laguna

9 Niguel, you know, mayor about teacher of the month

10 program and some other things. And, in fact, the board

11 night in May I learned a duplicate bill was actually

12 faxed to the district, but -- and it was going to be

13 given to me to give to Sam Miller, but I'd already given

14 Sam Miller the initial, true bill, so my understanding

15 was that he -- that the board president was quite upset

16 at that.

Fleming fakes anger Δ


17 Q Well, who told you that, who told you he was

18 furious? You said you learned from other people in the

19 building that he was furious. Who?

20 A Sherry Hahn.

21 Q And what did she tell you?

22 A She told me he had been back there trying to

23 find out how the document had gotten to Sam Miller.

24 And -- as I told Sherry Hahn at the time, the strange

25 thing is he knew the document had gotten to Sam Miller,




36



1 and I think he was just -- he was role-playing for the --

2 probably the benefit of Marlene Draper.

Fleming is "duplicitous" Δ


2 But in any

3 event, I realized that this man was so duplicitous, that

4 I no longer had any desire to continue working for him.

5 Q And this all related to the issue surrounding

6 yourself and Mr. Eggers; is that correct?

7 A No, it related to other issues that had been

8 building, but, you know, this was sort of the straw that

9 broke the camel's back.

Fleming bald-faced liar Δ


10 Q Well, let's talk a little bit about -- did you

11 ever go and talk to Dr. Fleming about your concern that

12 the column had been edited by Mr. Eggers that you wrote

13 in the spring of 2006?

14 A No.

15 Q Why not?

16 A Because of the way he had been duplicitous and

17 lying bald-faced that he had edited something that wasn't

18 an edit of his at all, what was he going to do, blow more

19 smoke in my face? You know, there was -- at that point,

20 you know, it was very hard to trust anything that the man

21 would say to me.

Ron Lackey Δ


22 Q Do you know Mr. Lackey, Dr. Lackey?

23 A Yes, I do.

24 Q And how do you know Dr. Lackey?

25 A I be- -- I became aware of Ron Lackey probably




37



1 at least as early as board meetings of spring 2002, when

2 he -- I became aware he was a regular person attending

3 board meetings and speaking during the public session

4 about special ed, special education matters. And if

5 there was a special education matter that were actually

6 docketed on the agenda, he would speak to that as well,

7 but if not, he would always speak during the public

8 comment session of the open meeting.

Meeting rules Δ


9 Q And were there rules and regulations that

10 related to public comment at the open meeting?

11 A Yeah. I mean, I'm not -- I don't -- I don't run

12 the board meetings, so I'm not -- I don't know them in

13 all detail, but, yes, there are.

14 Q Who was responsible for making sure the rules

15 and regulations were followed in the district,

16 ultimately?

17 A Well, the superintendent.

18 Q And you would expect the board to hold him

19 accountable for how those rules and regulations were

20 followed?

21 A I would answer that question this way: I would

22 expect that a board of trustees would expect their -- or

23 its chief administrative officer or chief executive

24 officer to follow all the rules and regulations. I

25 have -- I would state it as a generality.




38



1 Q And would you expect them to look to him for

2 guidance and direction on what those rules and

3 regulations are?

4 A Well, I guess I have to ask for clarification of

5 your question. Are you talking specifically about the

6 Capistrano Unified School Board?

7 Q Yes.

8 A But I -- there are enough instances that I saw

9 over four and a half years where I'm not sure I could

10 make that generality in all cases with this board and

11 this superin- -- or the former superintendent.

12 Q Would you expect a school board to look to their

13 superintendent to keep them informed as to what are the

14 rules and regulations?

15 A In a general sense, yes.

16 Q Now, other than Mr. Lackey -- or Dr. Lackey, I'm

17 sorry -- Dr. Lackey speaking at board meetings, did you

18 have other interactions with Dr. Lackey?

19 A Yes. I mean, Dr. -- the interactions with

20 Dr. Lackey sort of waxed and waned over the entire four

21 and a half years of my work at Capo. I mean, at the

22 outset in that spring I really didn't have any

23 interaction with him, other than I would see him at the

24 board meetings every month, and he would be speaking on

25 special ed, and he would be the source of a fair amount




39



1 of comment in the Tuesday cabinet sessions that the

2 superintendent holds every week, and particularly the

3 Tuesday cabinet sessions following the Monday night board

4 meeting.

Plan to shut up Lackey Δ


4 And, I mean, sometimes he'd say, you know,

5 "Isn't there any way, you know, we could shut that guy

6 up?" or blah, blah, blah.

7 I mean, if Lackey had -- Dr. Lackey, in

8 particular during that period, was very critical of the

9 district's special ed executive director, Susan Roice,

10 who was number two under Doreen Lohnes, who was the

11 assistant superintendent, I think -- I think that was her

12 title, but she was in charge of special ed, Susan Roice,

13 I think, was the operations.

Susan & Robert Roice issues Δ


13 Dr. Lackey was very

14 critical because the husband of Susan Roice, a man I

15 think, if I'm not mistaken, his name is Robert Roice,

16 worked as a consultant in our special ed division or

17 department, and Dr. Lackey was very, very critical of

18 that, because he thought it was a conflict of interest

19 with Susan Roice being the exec director. But he also --

20 there was another point he was also making. Oh, also

21 because Robert Roice, he said, was doing attorney-like

22 functions or had an attorney-like role in special ed

23 hearings and he was not an attorney. And this went on, I

24 mean, you know, month after month.

Lackey feared as candidate Δ


 25 And then the -- we were into the summer and




40



1 early fall of '02, and Dr. Lackey was a declared and then

2 certified candidate to run for the district board seat

3 held by Crystal Kochendorfer. And there was one meeting

4 where Dr. Lackey in particular -- maybe it was September

5 or October, one of the meetings just before the

6 election -- where he got the ear of a reporter from the

7 San Clemente Sun Post and the reporter from the

8 San Clemente Sun Post, which is a three-times-a-week

9 newspaper and owned by The Orange County Register. At

10 that time the way the Register covered the district on

11 most things was they would have that reporter for the Sun

12 Post write stories that would then go in all of the seven

13 other weekly editions of the Register that circulated

14 within the Capo Unified School District geographical

15 area. And Crystal Kochendorfer and Dr. Fleming and Susan

16 Roice, I mean, they were all worried about what a story

17 like that would look like.

Roice special ed case Δ


 18 And I was given by Doreen Lohnes, who I

19 assume -- and it's an assumption, but I -- who got it

20 from Susan Roice, but I was given a copy of a court case

21 that I think originated against the Poway Unified School

22 District, and they were sued -- Poway was sued by some

23 special ed advocates, and Robert Roice was at issue, and

24 the issue in that case was that, basically, Robert Roice

25 was practicing law without -- you know, without proper




41



1 procedure or whatever, the rules and regulations of

2 special ed. The case went against the special ed

3 advocates, it went for the city of -- or the Poway School

4 District, and I think it was certified by whatever the --

5 I guess the court of appeals.

6 Q Let me refocus your answer a little bit, because

7 I --

8 A Well, this is -- well, but this is -- goes to

9 the gist of your answer.

10 Q Let me rephrase the question, maybe, so we can

11 get through the deposition.

12 A All right.

13 Q Beginning with 2005, maybe the last -- 2004-'05

14 school year, so that would be September '04 and

15 thereafter, did you spend a great deal of time responding

16 to requests by Dr. Lackey?

17 A Yes, Dr. Lackey -- actually, for a while during

18 the '04-'05, Doreen Lohnes was replaced in special ed by

19 Susan McGill, temporary assignment, and for a period

20 there things seemed to calm down. I think Dr. Lackey

21 even got up at one board meeting and actually praised

22 Susan McGill for the way she was handling the special ed,

23 and he -- he wasn't there every meeting. But then --

24 and, again, I -- I guess this was sometime in late

Joint powers authority Δ


 25 '04-'05 the district joined a consortium along with other




42



1 school districts of some authority where they're pooling

2 their money to be able to fight special ed advocates and

3 IEPs more strongly or whatever. I forget what it's

4 called, but that seemed to just tick off Ron Lackey

5 immensely, and subsequently every board meeting he was

6 there.

7 And at one board meeting Dr. Fleming had me

8 prepare -- because --

9 Q If you just focus in on the questions.

10 Was a lot of time spent responding to

11 Dr. Lackey?

12 A By the district, yes.

13 Q Yes.

14 A Yes.

15 Q And were a lot of district resources being

16 absorbed by responding to Dr. Lackey?

17 A Not necessar- -- not really.

18 Q Well, when you say a lot of time was spent,

19 approximately how much time was spent?

20 A Well, it was my time, and, I mean, that was part

21 of my -- that's part of my job description. So I would

22 be spending, I don't know, maybe, you know, two hours a

23 week. I mean, it's hard to estimate. I mean, he --

24 because he -- he would ask for the same items essentially

25 over and over and over again, and my responses to him in




43



1 many ways was a reiteration, "Dr. Lackey, you were given

2 this this date, this this date," I mean, I would go down

3 this laundry list and say, "I've already given you this,

4 you already have it. Some other things are still waiting

5 for you at the reception desk." Because he objected to

6 the 15-cent-per-page copy, and he would come in and read

7 the documents in the lobby. And I'd say, "You've asked

8 for this before, it's been sitting here in the lobby.

9 Here are the lobby hours, come in and look at it." But,

10 I mean, it was essentially a reiteration over and over.

11 But as to a tremendous amount of time on my part, no, the

12 answer to that is no.

13 Q Were other employees spending time responding to

14 Dr. Lackey?

15 A Not that I'm aware of, no.

16 Q Was Dr. Lackey a special education advocate?

17 A I mean, he's self -- self-proclaimed, so I guess

18 he considers him a special education advocate.

19 Q Did he represent individuals who were seeking

20 services or benefits or expenses from the district?

21 A I don't know. I'm not aware of that.

Relationship with McGill Δ


 22 Q Now, what was your working relationship with

23 Susan McGill?

24 A I'd say overall, probably businesslike.

25 Q Did you have any personality clashes with her?




44



1 A No.

Visit to Registrar's office Δ


 2 Q Did you and she go to the registrar's office?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Why did you go to the registrar's office?

5 A She -- I don't know if -- well, I assume she was

6 asked by Dr. Fleming to call Neil Kelly, whom she had

7 had, Dr. Fleming's words, a special relationship with for

8 several months during the recall, for -- I guess, you

9 know, Dr. Fleming wanted someone to look at all the

10 petitions, after -- this is after the recall was over,

11 and --

12 Q You say you guess.

13 A Well, I don't know, because I was only told by

14 Dr. Fleming to go along with her, but I don't know what

15 the original motivation was.

16 Q Did he tell you why he was sending you to go

17 along with her?

18 A No, he didn't, he just said, "I think you should

19 go along with her."

20 Q Okay. Did he give you any specific instructions

21 on what to do when you were there?

22 A He said, "Take a look, you know, see if there's

23 interesting stuff." You know, it was very vague.

24 Q Did you do that?

25 A Did I go? Yes, I went with Susan McGill.




45



1 Q And did you take a look to see if there was any,

2 quote, interesting stuff?

3 A She and I got there, we were taken back. And

4 the arrangement was there were several tables all piled

5 high with petitions for each one. And, I mean, I don't

6 recognize -- she started to go through, because she

7 thought maybe she'd recognize names.

McGill's idea to copy names Δ


7 Then she said,

8 "Well, why don't we at least take down the petitioners,"

9 because each of the bottom of a -- of the signature sheet

10 would be the person who had gone out and solicited those

11 names. So I think we ended up taking down about two

12 dozen names of people who at every table, you know,

13 showed up, because it -- and it turned out it was very

14 logical, because if someone signed one, this person had

15 all seven, so that it would be essentially the same

16 person -- two dozen people who went around and circulated

17 petitions.

18 Q So you took down two dozen names out of the

19 seven tables piled high?

20 A Correct.

Smollar types list Δ


 21 Q And once you did that, what did you do with

22 them?

23 A I came back to the district, it was on a Friday.

24 I think the following Monday I typed the list up, it was

25 a single page, and I gave one copy to Dr. Fleming, I gave




46



1 another copy to Susan McGill.

2 Q Why did you type up that list?

3 A Because Susan McGill had, you know, said, "Let's

4 take the names" -- you know, "take the names down." And

5 Dr. Fleming had wanted something as a result of the -- I

6 think she had briefed him that Friday when she came back,

7 orally, on what we had done.

8 Q So she briefed him orally. Did anybody tell you

9 to type up that list of names?

10 A Nobody directed me to type the list up.

11 Q So you just did that and gave it to her and

12 Dr. Fleming?

13 A Uh-huh.

14 Q By "uh-huh," you mean yes?

15 A Yes. Yes.

16 Q That's one of those --

17 A Sorry, yes.

Fleming takes list Δ


 18 Q And nobody asked you for that, you just did it;

19 is that correct?

20 A But Dr. Fleming was very happy to receive it.

21 Q Well, how do you know, did you personally hand

22 it to him?

23 A Because I personally handed it to him.

24 Q And what did he say?

25 A He said, "This is great," the way he would




47



1 usually characterize things. And as he's want to, he

2 would stand when I came in, because he was a little

3 bit -- he didn't like the fact that he was so much

4 shorter than I was. So I handed it to him, he was

5 standing, said, "Thanks, this is great," and he put it in

6 his box -- he had a whole bunch of double boxes, and he

7 has a single box at the end which was for his trustees,

8 and he put it in his trustees box.

9 Q This is in the office where he can't find

10 anything?

11 A Uh-huh.

12 Q "Uh-huh" meaning yes?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Now, did you do anything else with respect to

15 your visit to the registrar's office?

16 A No.

Cost of recall Δ


 17 Q Was there any concern in the district about the

18 cost of the recall?

19 A A lot of concern.

20 Q And why was the district concerned about the

21 cost of the recall?

22 A Because the superintendent -- Registrar of

23 Voters had told us -- and I think this was back when it

24 was -- certificated petitions to go out for signatures in

25 June of '05 -- that a special election would cost up to




48



1 $600,000, because there was some cent figure per

2 signature that the registrar charged for counting, and

3 you could figure they were going to submit, you know --

4 they had to submit a minimum of, like, what, 23 or

5 however many signatures, and you multiply that by seven,

6 and you multiply that by the cost per signature the

7 registrar would charge, you had a big cost right there.

8 And then on top of that, if you had a special election,

9 we knew -- the business division knew what it would cost

10 to put on a special election. So the grand total in the

11 worst case was -- I mean, I shouldn't swear to this

12 figure, because I'm not sure, but I think it was near

13 $600,000 it could have run.

14 Q At the time you ended up at the registrar's

15 office, was there still some concern about the fact the

16 district may be paying for these signatures and how that

17 was going to be calculated?

18 A No.

Fleming knew CUSD off hook Δ


 19 Q When did the district learn that it was not

20 going to have to pay for the verification signature?

21 A Dr. Fleming and Susan McGill and subsequently

22 cabinet, we knew sometime during the day on whatever the

23 Monday of the first board meeting was in January, so that

24 was the 9th -- I don't know when the board meeting was,

25 but, anyways, during the day on that board meeting.




49


Fear factor at CUSD Δ


 1 Q Since leaving the district, have you had any

2 discussions with any district employees?

3 A Not substantive. I mean, I've called some to

4 say hi.

5 Q Who have you talked to?

6 A I've talked to my -- I'm not sure it's his --

7 I'm not sure they want me to -- because of the fear

8 factor that's in the district.

9 Q Well, you're under oath, there's no reason not

10 to answer the question. Who did you talk to?

11 A I talked to the Web master, Tanya Owens, to ask

12 her if the Web was being kept up. I've talked to both

13 receptionists just to say hi. Linda Ross and Pat -- Pat

14 Cox, because Pat had been out sick for a long, long time

15 during the last six months, and I made sure she was okay.

16 I've talked with several other -- Sherry Hahn and Sherine

17 Smith. Shelia Henness. Maybe one or two more, but those

18 are the -- think Dave Doomey one time.

District Attorney raid Δ


 19 Q Did you ever talk to Carla Delatorre?

20 A Uh-huh.

21 Q By "uh-huh," you mean yes?

22 A Yes. Talked to her once.

23 Q You talked to her once?

24 A Actually twice, yeah.

25 Q And what was your purpose in calling her?




50



1 A I had heard -- I'd gotten a phone call from The

2 Orange County Register that the district attorney had

3 raided the -- had raided -- essentially come down to the

4 office to cart away stuff, and I called her to ask her

5 what it was like in there. Said it was real quiet, real

6 quiet.

7 Q Did you laugh while you were talking to her?

8 A Uh-huh.

9 Q Why did you laugh?

10 A I thought it was amusing.

11 Q You thought what was amusing?

12 A I thought the reaction, she said, "Around here

13 is real quiet," I thought that was amusing.

14 Q Did you ask her if they were being allowed to

1